PDA

View Full Version : Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music?



Rojira
03-02-2007, 05:32 PM
Are there any ways in separating these from eachother when wanting to do an edit?

(***Mod note*** You can find a very useful how-to here (http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?298-Separating-Sound-Effects-Dialogue-and-Music&p=160210#post160210))

(***Mod note 2*** You can find a way to extract dialogue from an isolated track, with varying results, here (http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Isolating-Music-and-Voices-in-Star-Wars/post/668489/#TopicPost668489))

boon23
03-02-2007, 05:35 PM
a program like CINENAMTIZE can split all channels and give you each channel as a single wav. This can be very helpful. Often themusic comes just from the rear channels and the sound effects only from left and right, whereas the voices are centered.

Rojira
03-02-2007, 05:37 PM
Thanks for the help Boon!

nOmArch
06-11-2007, 10:01 AM
is there anything similar for the pc? being able to seperate music and dialogue would be unbelievably useful!

boon23
06-11-2007, 10:44 AM
cinematize is for the PC and the mac.

nOmArch
06-11-2007, 10:50 AM
thought it was a bit strange that it would be mac only, although the site doesn't really go out of its way to tell you theres a pc version.

looks good will have to wait a bit til i can afford it though.

TeresofBlood
06-11-2007, 11:02 AM
I have it for PC. It's a kickass program. It's all you need to get your MPEG files and sound files to edit.

ultimatesquash
06-16-2007, 12:30 PM
are there any other programs that can do this? i cannot afford to buy cinamtize at the moment and it would be an amzingly handy tool for my next edit. i probably have tools that can do this already and just dont know it i imagine this can be achieved with womble? can someone help?

boon23
06-16-2007, 01:06 PM
besweet can do that too (kind of). Try the convert to wave option. Aslo there is foobar2000. Pretty great freeware tool.
You can probably find guides on all this on http://www.videohelp.com

DaveRambo
12-23-2009, 04:37 PM
Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be possible to remove the 'music' part of a movie which has a 5.1 mix - to remove the music and just have the other audo channels, i.e. the voices, sound effects, ect?

Does anyone know what software I could use to start experiementing with isolating different channels of a 5.1 mix?

Thanks!

DaveRambo
12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
Forgot to mention, I'm looking for Windows compatiable software to do this (not currently a Mac user).

T-HOPE
12-23-2009, 04:50 PM
I rip the audio track with DVDdecrypter, then use BeSweet to extrac the 5.1 mix into 6 separate audio channels.

Howver, I'm not an audio expert since I also have trouble with removing the background music while fanediting.

nOmArch
12-23-2009, 05:49 PM
it depends on the 5.1 mix. some you can, some you cant. only way to find out is to rip it and try.

Frantic Canadian
12-23-2009, 06:42 PM
It's possible but it depends if the music is limited to one specific channel. When I did my Zack And Miri Make A Porno EE I needed to remove the song "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver" by Primus from the opening scene so that I could add in two scene extensions and luckily for me the song was limited to only one channel but that's not always the case. I used DVD Audio Extractor to extract the audio and then I used BeSweet to seperate the channels.

Phantom Stranger
12-23-2009, 07:41 PM
I used DVD Audio Extractor to extract the audio and then I used BeSweet to seperate the channels.

Since DVD Audio Extractor separates the channels, why would you use BeSweet? Does it do a better job?

Frantic Canadian
12-23-2009, 09:30 PM
I used DVD Audio Extractor to extract the audio and then I used BeSweet to seperate the channels.

Since DVD Audio Extractor separates the channels, why would you use BeSweet? Does it do a better job?

As far as I know it doesn't seperate channels. When I extracted the audio all it gave me was one track which is why I had to use BeSweet to seperate them into individual channels.

Phantom Stranger
12-24-2009, 01:19 AM
I've used DVD Audio Extractor to separate channels. It was rather simple, although I'm new to the audio editing thing so I don't have much to compare it to. Go down to #5 under step two:

http://www.castudio.org/dvdaudioextract ... al-wav.php (http://www.castudio.org/dvdaudioextractor/tutorial-wav.php)

Frantic Canadian
12-24-2009, 01:59 AM
I see the problem now. The version shown is 3.5.1 but I'm using version 2.3.1 which doesn't give you the option to split the channels.

TMBTM
12-24-2009, 03:25 AM
After having separate the center audio channel, if some music remains, download Audacity 1.3 beta, there is a "remove noise filter" that can be useful and easy to use.
You choose a segment of music as the noise to remove then apply the filter to all the scene you want to music to be removed. But there are musics with intruments close to voices frequencies, so you'll have to play with the options a bit... and sometimes it's just impossible to make a proper "only voices" audio.

boon23
12-24-2009, 06:47 AM
Have you ever wanted to get rid of the music part of a song and just have the lyrics. Well it is quite simple to do actually.

First you will need to have the instrumental version of the song and a decent audio editing program. One with multi track ability. Now load the song into one track and the instrumental into another one. Make sure that they are lined up perfectly so that when you play them both there is no lag between them.
Ok, now edit just the instrumental track. Programs will very, but if you can there should be a filter to let you either invert or do a phase shift. You need the track to be shifted 180 degrees. Ok once you have inverted the instrumental track return to the multi track view. Mute and full song tack and play just the instrumental. Hear the difference? If you do you did something wrong. Inverting the track will have no effect on how it sounds by itself. However, if you unmute the full song now and have both tracks playing at the same time, you should only hear the lyrics.
....
read the full article: http://www.machinima.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20412

If properly done this works VERY well, but of course it is not easy, starting with the EXACT timelines and volume. Do not expect to have crystal clear voice and effects sound after that, but if you put a different score on it, it can sound pretty perfect. The is a pro method and it is work.

Also for scenes without talking: think about doing the effects sounds yourself.
freesound is a great source to find sound FX: http://www.freesound.org/index.php
you can also buy professional sound effects that can be an invaluable help. The sound ideas (http://www.sound-ideas.com/) series offers ANYTHING you can wish for.

Phantom Stranger
12-29-2009, 01:48 PM
That's a pretty informative link, Boon.

If you come across any specific instructions for Audacity (or any audio program for that matter) please post them as I'm not sure how to apply that information.

boon23
12-29-2009, 02:05 PM
every audio editor has an invert function. Try it out.
use 2 waves of the same section, invert one and put it on the original wave. Result: silence.
If you do this with just a part of the sound (for example the music) the music will be deleted, but the rest will stay. This also works with noise or a voice.
But like I said: try it out.

DaveRambo
02-24-2010, 03:49 PM
A belated thank you to everyone who replied! Loads of great advice here, thanks! :)

gobalicious
09-06-2011, 04:49 PM
Complete editing noob here...

I'm wondering what techniques exist to separate dialogue, music, and sound effects. I'm aware that different channels can separate dialogue or music. But is this common? Are they often inseparably mixed? Do other techniques exist?

nOmArch
09-06-2011, 05:16 PM
If I had a penny for everytime a thread like crops up I'd probably have enough to buy a pint :lol:

Speaking of which I've been drinking so I can't bothered to search out the relevant thread, just have a quick search around the guides section and you'll find what you need pretty quickly. Alternatively wait for someone less inebriated to answer :)

ThrowgnCpr
09-06-2011, 05:28 PM
If I had a penny for everytime a thread like crops up I'd probably have enough to buy a pint :lol:

Speaking of which I've been drinking so I can't bothered to search out the relevant thread, just have a quick search around the guides section and you'll find what you need pretty quickly. Alternatively wait for someone less inebriated to answer :)

This. PLEASE search the forum before posting repeats. There aren't that many threads in the audio section, a simple 2 minute scan and you would have found the following threads:

http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?2699-Isolating-the-audio-from-2-clips
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?4406-Knock-Out
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?604-Take-Out-Dialogue
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?298-Separating-Sound-Effects-Dialogue-and-Music (can this thread title get any closer to what you want???)
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?1042-adding-your-own-score-to-an-edited-scene-guide-needed.
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?1531-Soundsoap-How-to-use-it
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?1508-voice-and-effects-track-isolation-possible-solution

I'll clean up these various threads soon, but for now, please use one of the linked above. and reading the forum announcement might help too...
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?1211-Need-Help

TV's Frink
09-06-2011, 05:31 PM
and reading the forum announcement might help too...
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?1211-Need-Help
Man, that's soooooo 2008 :p

ThrowgnCpr
09-06-2011, 05:35 PM
Man, that's soooooo 2008 :p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS22u_Kc-VM

ThrowgnCpr
09-06-2011, 05:37 PM
FYI, this thread is now closed. Anyone with inquiries about audio isolation can use one of the threads I linked above. Frink, you will have to amuse yourself elsewhere :)

I will delete this thread once the above audio editing threads are cleaned up

TV's Frink
09-06-2011, 05:41 PM
Frink, you will have to amuse yourself elsewhere :)
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/153/e/5/sad_strut_robot_walk_by_ikstudio.gif

addiesin
09-06-2011, 08:44 PM
Audacity 1.3 Beta requires a little setup (installing codecs) but is worth it as a free alternative. It will open movie files and let you see all audio tracks, which can then be combined or separated from each other and saved into whatever audio format you want. I find it very helpful.

white43
09-07-2011, 08:10 AM
Woah - a bit of a thread resurrection there. That's what a 4 year old thread.

ThrowgnCpr
09-07-2011, 08:13 AM
the general contents of this thread aren't exactly what the title specifies, but I've had it with the countless duplicate threads. I will be combining and cleaning up soon. For now, continue to post in this thread as to what the topic describes.

njvc
01-15-2012, 08:16 AM
Hi all, for my Where the Wild Things Are edit, I have split the 5.1 to six mono tracks, and want to isolate the dialogue. Unfortunately while all the dialogue is in the centre, the music is spilled all over it. Does anyone know a way to get rid of the soundtrack elements and keep the dialogue/foley from a mono track? I know this is a probably impossible... But hey, it doesn't hurt to ask.

njvc
01-15-2012, 05:04 PM
The best solution I have so far is to de-noise/EQ the track to minimise music spill as much as possible, then cut out the dialogue and paste it over a new foley/sound effects track. It's simplistic, but it works well enough in some scenes.

geminigod
01-15-2012, 05:28 PM
Noise gate and/or use of a more complex noise removal filter are you best bets. Audacity has one of the best noise removal filters I have used. Depending on how loud the music spillover is unfortunately neither of these solutions may work all the time without severely degrading your dialogue. Since music generally covers such a broad range of frequencies, there is really no way to not cause some dialogue degradation. Using an EQ initially to isolated your dialogue a bit more might help also before applying noise gate or filter. If the dialogue gets too quiet in the process, you can use Normalize to make it louder and the tweak the Gain.

TMBTM
01-15-2012, 05:41 PM
when the music is is not too present, but still there, you can try a "dynamic" filter" (a least thats how it's named in premiere pro;
The settings are a bit complicated but basicly the trick is that you can boost the loud sounds while reducing to a minimum the lower ones (music).
So each time a word start the volume is boosed (or kept as the same level) and as soon as it stops, the volume is dropped to zero. That could prevent you the long task to do it manualy.
But this only really work when the music is not too loud, the spoken lines not too long, and if you add a music and new sound effects above to hide the trick.

To really remove unwanted music. You may try a filter you can find in Audacity called "noise removal".
Basicaly you select a segment of sound that is the kind of sound/frequencies you want to remove. Here the music.
So you first "get the noise profil"
Then you apply it to the part with the same kind of music with the voices on.
You have some settings to make the effect stonger or softer, but of course, the strongest you go, the more some frequencies of your voices will also be removed,
because they will surely share some of the frenquencies with the music. removing violin is particulary hard because it shares some same frenquencies with the human voice for example.

The only way to remove for sure a music from the voice is to have the exact same music without the voices. Soundtrack music from CD wont work. You'd need the exact same frenquencies, the exact same volume, everything. So, all in all, there is close to zero chance that this methode would work. But you can try:
Let's say you have an Elvis song in stereo, and the exact same song but only the instrumental version. Compression is same, volume is the same, it starts exactely at the same moment etc...
Well, if you open those two piece of music in Audacity and go: effect/invert on ONE of them... then there is a good chance you'll end with only the voice of Elvis. Because most of the time on records, the main voice is the only elements that is exactely the same on both left and right (along with the bass sometime...)
So this effect "invert" frequencies. And when two exact opposite frequencies are played at the same time: as strange as it is there is no sound to be heard.

I spent hours working on that last trick and came up with nothing good. But it's fun to try.

TMBTM
01-15-2012, 05:57 PM
Here is a test made with "noise removal" from Audacity

First the center audio channel fro ESB:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UWL66T0P

then the exact same audio part with the filter (I applied a strong effect to show you that it is powerful, but at the same time that it can change the voices a bit. With some more try I'm sure it could sound better)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B650Z95H

njvc
01-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Thanks guys. I'm aware of the 'invert' frequencies effect, we used it when recording my band's last album - it's kind of mind blowing actually! But you're right, I can't do that here. The issue I have is that the spectrum of frequencies is too broad in the soundtrack to completely remove it without destroying the dialogue. I think my best solution in those tricky scenes is to remove the bass - this seems to give the effect that the music is diegetic, rather than soundtrack (i.e. on the radio or something.) We'll see...

geminigod
01-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Oh yes, The frequency invert trick is a good one. I haven't played around with that at all and should. It might have been useful in some instances with this 7.1 track I am working with.

Unfortunately the noise removal filter tends to only work well with pretty constant frequency "white noise" type sounds. But I did just think of something that might work better which I have never tried. In Audacity you can choose to remove or isolate with the noise removal effect. It might work better to sample a section of dialogue and then try isolating. This theoretically would be much easier for the filter. If anybody has tried this, please report back!

Toonloon
02-05-2012, 11:25 AM
I have a scene where I need to remove the music from. I've heard that if the music is in the rear channels, you can somehow remove it.

How would I got about this please? Does anyone know?

TV's Frink
02-05-2012, 11:32 AM
Well...if it's only in the rear channels, you can cut those tracks out of your timeline. Not sure if that's what you mean, however.

More information would be helpful.

Toonloon
02-05-2012, 11:51 AM
It's a deleted scene on the Thing 2011 BD. I think it's only in stereo. I'm using Premiere CS5.5

TMBTM
02-05-2012, 11:53 AM
Problem is that music can usualy sitll be heard in the center audio channel, along with voices and sound effects.
If you are lucky, then there will be no music left, but if you still listen to some of it then you're in for a headache to make it sound good.
Several threads already speak about that in the "technical" forum.

TMBTM
02-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Oh. stereo.... Then you're maybe f...ed.
Try the technical forums though. There are tricks.
Like the "invert" method. But this method, would probably let you with the music only and not the voices...

geminigod
02-05-2012, 03:40 PM
Toonloon, a bit of constructive feedback about posting. First, this thread is better off being in the audio editing forum section. Second, I didn't even have to do a search to find multiple relevant existing threads about what you are trying to accomplish. Just click on the audio editing forum and they are all right there on the very 1st page you look at. Please do more research before asking for help, and then you can add any further questions you may have to those already existing threads.

TV's Frink
02-05-2012, 04:18 PM
this thread is better off being in the audio editing forum section
Moved. Thanks for catching that.

steFANedit
02-10-2012, 04:41 PM
use 2 waves of the same section, invert one and put it on the original wave. Result: silence.
If you do this with just a part of the sound (for example the music) the music will be deleted, but the rest will stay. This also works with noise or a voice.

I don't understand. How do I do this in Sound Forge? I want to delete the music and keep the voices.

geminigod
02-10-2012, 05:30 PM
That article makes it sound easy, but it rarely works for music. Works great for removing vocals though!

You have to have identical music in two different tracks lined up on the exact same millisecond and with the exact same amplitudes & frequencies (i.e., the wave forms have to be identical). Then based on linear wave addition theory, they should cancel each other when you invert the phase of one track so that the waves are inverted from the other. (Picture a sine wave in your head. As one wave is moving up from the axis, the other is now moving down from the axis with the same pitch & power.) Then when you render out a new track with the two combined, they cancel each other out to a net zero amplitude.

steFANedit
02-11-2012, 09:29 AM
That article makes it sound easy, but it rarely works for music.

I'm working on a fanedit for the remake/reboot/whatever of Friday the 13th and I want to delete the section when Lawrence makes a jokes to Chelsea that "because he's black he can't listen to green day?" but in the very next scene they enter Trent's house and you have rap music play all over the scene even in the front middle track (not loud but it's there in the background) does anyone have any experience with soundsoap, I have heard that that program should be good, and wondering if it's worth trying out. I tried the free-ware Audacity and that only works if you're going to "hide" the original score with another one, on its own it ends up sounding like the dialog is under water or something.

TMBTM
02-11-2012, 10:48 AM
Audacity have a remove noise filter that works well, kind of like soundsoap, IMO.
You have to choose the sound you'd like to remove (in this case you want to select a part of the rap music, but a part without the voice)
then you can play with the option (attack rate, smooth, etc..) then you apply the filter on your audio.
The voices would maybe sound a bit strange (like muted a bit, or like if the characters are under water) because some frequencies of the voices could match the music you want to remove. But if you play with the options a bit, maybe you'll find a way to make it sound "okay". Of course if you then add another music in place of the rap, then the trick might work better (new music, or increase the background sound effect, like wind, vehicules, people walking, talking etc...)

Another tool that it useful on premiere pro is the "dynamic" filter.
Activate the first option: AGOn/off
then play with the AGthresh and AG attack.
Basicaly each time a sound is a bit louder than your option setting you'll hear it and every other sounds before and after will be muted.
Of course this wll not really remove the rap music during the dialogue, but it can be useful tool sometime.

EDIT: if you find a "quick and easy" way to really remove a background music blended with voices on a center channel, then you'll become the god of fanediting.

geminigod
02-12-2012, 03:47 AM
EDIT: if you find a "quick and easy" way to really remove a background music blended with voices on a center channel, then you'll become the god of fanediting.

Fanediting in these situations is as much about creativity as it is technical skill. You kinda have to become a magician skilled in the art of illusion. It can be frustrating but also rewarding when it finally comes together and your slight of hand trick becomes invisible to the audience.

That said, if it is a well-known rap song that is straight off of an album, you could try to find a copy and play with the wave cancelling trick... I have honestly only half-assedly tried this once and it only cut out a partial range of frequencies. It sounded different but not really any quieter. One of these days I will have to try again with a bit more of a scientific approach. If anybody can perfect this method, please come back and teach us!

PS: Any program you might buy, the noise removing filter will not be much better than Audacity's. I have played with a few different ones. Music just covers way too wide a range of frequencies and there is no way to not damage your dialogue in the process. Those noise removal filters are really only effective with a very specific repeating noise.

Syfo-Dyas
02-12-2012, 06:19 PM
I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.

In other cases they removed the audio effects layers and added their own.

Doing a quick Google search reveals that no one seems to know anything about how to do this, or even claims that it is impossible, but again, I have seen it down, so it must be possible.

So I'm wondering if anyone here would care to share the secret with me. I'd really like to remove the sound track from Titan A.E.

Thank you in advance!

Captain Khajiit
02-12-2012, 06:32 PM
Throw, nOm or TV's Frink in 3,2,1...

TV's Frink
02-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Wait a minute...

TV's Frink
02-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Threads merged...and it looks like I need to merge a few more too.

Rogue-theX
02-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Threads merged...and it looks like I need to merge a few more too.

Please and thank you with a cherry on top :-)

njvc
02-12-2012, 09:26 PM
I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.

In other cases they removed the audio effects layers and added their own.

Doing a quick Google search reveals that no one seems to know anything about how to do this, or even claims that it is impossible, but again, I have seen it down, so it must be possible.

So I'm wondering if anyone here would care to share the secret with me. I'd really like to remove the sound track from Titan A.E.

Thank you in advance!

Hi Syfo-Dyas (and others who are asking this question). there are many great tips already in this thread on how to achieve this, but since I have been battling this challenge in my recent edits, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as well. Gemini is right, it is most often a case of slight of hand.

Life is a LOT easier if you can split a 5.1 surround track into 6 mono tracks, and isolate the dialogue (normally in the centre channel). Mostly, however, even the centre track has some spill. In these cases, tricks are required.

You can try the very technical "inverse" effect if you like, but what I prefer is to chop up the mono source into only the pieces you require - i.e. the dialogue, and create complete silence all around what is needed, then add new sound effects, foley and music around those chopped up pieces you want to keep from the original source - Essentially rebuilding the audio in the scene. Often this works really well, and if you edit it smoothly enough, will be totally convincing.

One of the challenges with this technique is that sometimes the spilled score still pokes through behind the chopped up dialogue that you have retained from the original audio source. Given that you have already discarded most of the mono track, these will generally be unrecognisable, but still annoying and noticeable within your final mix. In this case, you can apply a filter - I usually try to EQ the background noise, but as many have already said, this can have a big impact on your dialogue track (i.e., removing all the bass/treble), so it's a pay off/cost equation to find the right balance. You can also mix the background foley/music a little louder in those moments to "bandaid" over the problematic music. This is where the slight of hand comes in. You need to be creative about how to cover it up. If problems persist, consider cutting the scene to get rid of the line/s of dialogue with music bleed that can't be gotten rid of.

That's how I do it anyway.

TV's Frink
02-12-2012, 09:56 PM
Thread stuck.

geminigod
02-12-2012, 10:43 PM
I have watched a TON of Fan Edits where the editor has stripped out the dialog from the musical score and added in their own score.


Gemini is right, it is most often a case of slight of hand.

Did I say that? I was totally lying. Njvc's illuminating post above reveals that, while his fanedits are amazing, he is in fact not a true magician but just a conjurer of cheap tricks. The truth is some of us here do possess real magical powers.

Syfo-Dyas, you must choose. Follow njvc and spend months learning about technology, tricks, & illusion, or follow me into the black void where anything is possible with a simple thought and click of a button.

I can teach the arcane secrets of our fanediting order, Syfo-Dyas, but first you must demonstrate your devotion to the order by meditating in a sensory depravation chamber for 48 hours and then egging George Lucas's mailbox. You must also pray to Tv's Frink thrice daily, or I fear there will be nothing any of us can do for you. No force of nature can withstand his wrath.

(Now I really need to re-watch The Prestige.)

Neglify
02-12-2012, 10:51 PM
GemGod + drugs = :crazy:

njvc
02-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Did I say that? I was totally lying. Njvc's illuminating post above reveals that, while his fanedits are amazing, he is in fact not a true magician but just a conjurer of cheap tricks. The truth is some of us here do possess real magical powers.

Syfo-Dyas, you must choose. Follow njvc and spend months learning about technology, tricks, & illusion, or follow me into the black void where anything is possible with a simple thought and click of a button.

I can teach the arcane secrets of our fanediting order, Syfo-Dyas, but first you must demonstrate your devotion to the order by meditating in a sensory depravation chamber for 48 hours and then egging George Lucas's mailbox. You must also pray to Tv's Frink thrice daily, or I fear there will be nothing any of us can do for you. No force of nature can withstand his wrath.

(Now I really need to re-watch The Prestige.)

Gold, if for no other reason that you referenced my favourite and most often quoted LOTR scene...."Bilbo....the ring is still in your pock-et." Say this in your best Gandalf voice, and you are guaranteed to have a good day.

TV's Frink
02-12-2012, 11:36 PM
You must also pray to Tv's Frink thrice daily, or I fear there will be nothing any of us can do for you. No force of nature can withstand his wrath.

:ranger:

JetSetWilly
06-02-2012, 11:22 AM
Right, Im having no end of problems. Basically, I found out Robocop 2 is in Dolby Surround. Now, I've ripped the soundtrack from the dvd as .wav files, and tried to convert them into channels, which worked, but both the music and speech are in both tracks, not matter what I've tried :-| After trying Audacity, foobar2000 and the others (whos names escape me for the moment), I'm getting quite fed up. I've a feeling it's because of them being in Dolby Surround. Please tell me I'm wrong, and that it's a simple solution, as I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!!

lpd
06-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Hi Jetset.
You will find that most movies dont have perfectly separate speech / effects/ music channels especially if its an older movie that may have been converted to surround sound from stereo.

JetSetWilly
06-02-2012, 11:28 AM
Hi Jetset.
You will find that most movies dont have perfectly separate speech / effects/ music channels especially if its an older movie that may have been converted to surround sound from stereo.

Ah, b*****ks! I thought as much. Ok, then, next question: is there some sort of program that will isolate the music/speech, and let you mute it (or am I being a pillock?)?
Oh, and thanks for the reply btw :)

lpd
06-02-2012, 11:32 AM
There are programs that claim to be able to do that but I dont think theres any that can do it properly. Your best bet is while editing trying to isolate the speech word for word and filling in the music behind, yes its a pain in the arse!

JetSetWilly
06-02-2012, 11:36 AM
There are programs that claim to be able to do that but I dont think theres any that can do it properly. Your best bet is while editing trying to isolate the speech word for word and filling in the music behind, yes its a pain in the arse!

That's what I was thinking of doing, but seeing as my editing skills are quite inept at the moment anyway, I'd probably end up deleting everything :lol:
Cheers for your help

TomH1138
06-02-2012, 01:33 PM
I don't know if this helps at all or not, JetSetWilly, but here's a conversation that I had with Reave about trying to separate the music from the dialogue on the 1986 movie Labyrinth:

http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?6021-Labyrinth-Through-Dangers-Untold&highlight=labyrinth

I haven't actually tried Besweet myself yet, in part because I've had other technical difficulties with Labyrinth that have led to my setting it aside for the time being.

I'm sure that Reaves' advice is sound - I just don't know if it applies in your situation. It's probably worth giving a try, though.

Hope this helps!

TV's Frink
06-02-2012, 01:39 PM
besweet separates a 5.1 ac3 file into six separate mono wav files. If your source is 2.0, besweet will not be able to extract a dialogue-only center channel.

JetSetWilly
06-02-2012, 01:49 PM
I don't know if this helps at all or not, JetSetWilly, but here's a conversation that I had with Reave about trying to separate the music from the dialogue on the 1986 movie Labyrinth:

http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?6021-Labyrinth-Through-Dangers-Untold&highlight=labyrinth

I haven't actually tried Besweet myself yet, in part because I've had other technical difficulties with Labyrinth that have led to my setting it aside for the time being.

I'm sure that Reaves' advice is sound - I just don't know if it applies in your situation. It's probably worth giving a try, though.

Hope this helps!

It's a step in the right direction, but I got so naffed off with BeSweet (it wouldn't convert them, just put a file with 0 bytes in the folder), that I just deleted it out of frustration. However, I've had to resort to drastic measures, and I think I may have come up trumps. I found a version that's 5.1, so I've got that. I just hope it IS 5.1, and not in sodding Dolby Surround again :|

Thanks anyway, I'll try it if this goes belly up.

Just a heads up, it's only gone and bloody worked!! I can now do the idea I had earlier: replace ALL the music, with cues from both Robocop AND Starship Troopers (as they both sound near enough alike anyway), or I might use S.T and something else (probably something else sci-fi-ish)

Uncanny Antman
06-02-2012, 11:30 PM
Wait...you found a version of Robocop 2 that had discreet dialogue with no music bleed at all? What country is it from? All the versions I've tried still had music bleeding through all the channels.

JetSetWilly
06-03-2012, 08:29 AM
Wait...you found a version of Robocop 2 that had discreet dialogue with no music bleed at all? What country is it from? All the versions I've tried still had music bleeding through all the channels.

I was a little to eager in my posting on that one, UA. I found the speech was higher on the channel 3 track, but I only tried the first few minutes. Unfortunately, there was still music, and I've tried putting it through audacity and doing the invert thing (which still doesn't work), so it looks like I'm going to have to be creative. One thing I did do, was find the theme from the tv show of The Incredible Hulk called The Lonely Man (quite poignant, I think), and I've put it on the scene where Murphy drives by his wife's house (I've shortened it, obviously), and it does near enough mute the music to that scene. Still, I'm always on the look out for a program that can scan the file, and mute the music, but I've more chances of finding Wally/Waldo thank that. If I do find something though, I'll post back and let you know.

Uncanny Antman
06-03-2012, 09:32 AM
Dang. Oh well, no worse off than we were before. :)

JetSetWilly
06-03-2012, 10:40 AM
Dang. Oh well, no worse off than we were before. :)

I know. I'm tearing my hair out at MGM's ineptitude. Surely a movie like Robocop 2 should have had a proper 5.1 sound mix, and not some crappy dolby surround job. Am currently putting it through Goldwave, inverting it, trying noise removal, and then reverting it back. Probably make it ten times worse than before, but it's worth a shot.

Uncanny Antman
06-03-2012, 11:19 AM
It's not ineptitude. There are actually very, very few films that are mixed in a way that means they can be pulled apart cleanly. It's always a precious little fan editing gift when you happen upon one. :)

TV's Frink
06-03-2012, 03:17 PM
The Room's center channel is almost all dialogue only. ;)

BladeRunner391
06-03-2012, 05:41 PM
The Room's center channel is almost all dialogue only. ;)

:-P

tranzor
06-04-2012, 03:41 PM
It's not ineptitude. There are actually very, very few films that are mixed in a way that means they can be pulled apart cleanly. It's always a precious little fan editing gift when you happen upon one. :)

Curious, is it the same sound mix on the MGM blu ray version?

JetSetWilly
06-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Curious, is it the same sound mix on the MGM blu ray version?

It probably is, but I don't think it's been done properly. Either that, or it's the best they could do.

booshman
06-05-2012, 07:28 AM
2 programs I've found that actually give good results are "iZotope RX 2" and "Sound Soap".

Sound Soap lets you sample the audio you don't want, and use that to remove the sound from a given clip. It's pretty basic, but good if you have a certain noise you want to isolate.

iZotope RX 2 is a much more in depth tool with a lot more options. It gives you a visual representation of the audio, and lets you erase individual elements from the waveform.

And here's their promotional vid to give you a look at the interface.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hFpil2x8T0

Here's a clip of what I used the software for:

https://vimeo.com/35026390

L8wrtr
06-05-2012, 08:37 AM
Holy hell that iZotope is cool, shame it's so damn expensive.

I have SoundSoap and I have to say that the interface leaves A LOT to be desired, it is very difficult to use and the resulting isolated files have never been usable to me, typically sounding very tinny - of course that could be operator error ;)

JetSetWilly
06-05-2012, 10:17 AM
Holy hell that iZotope is cool, shame it's so damn expensive.

I have SoundSoap and I have to say that the interface leaves A LOT to be desired, it is very difficult to use and the resulting isolated files have never been usable to me, typically sounding very tinny - of course that could be operator error ;)

Never tried SoundSoap myself, but I agree, that iZotope RX does look the business. It might be the droid I'm looking for ;-)

tranzor
06-06-2012, 04:07 PM
2 programs I've found that actually give good results are "iZotope RX 2" and "Sound Soap".

Sound Soap lets you sample the audio you don't want, and use that to remove the sound from a given clip. It's pretty basic, but good if you have a certain noise you want to isolate.

iZotope RX 2 is a much more in depth tool with a lot more options. It gives you a visual representation of the audio, and lets you erase individual elements from the waveform.

And here's their promotional vid to give you a look at the interface.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hFpil2x8T0

Here's a clip of what I used the software for:

https://vimeo.com/35026390

WOW!! I had an old free plugin of theirs (izotope vinyl) but I need to look into this. It could help me in trying to get some soundtrack without effects

LastSurvivor
06-07-2012, 09:14 AM
Wow indeed... RX2 does indeed look amazing... but alas, that price is just out of the ball park for me :(

tranzor
06-08-2012, 01:38 AM
Wow indeed... RX2 does indeed look amazing... but alas, that price is just out of the ball park for me :(

me too (for now), but the only thing the trial does not let you do is save it. With that in mind if it does let you fully do what you need to, you could always play the work and then use a windows/mac sound recorder to record what you hear and get your "whatever is needed" that way-- :)

tranzor
06-09-2012, 03:16 AM
I am really enjoying this izotope RX 2 program. I love the way you can technically photoshop your audio clips, though in some cases yoo are limited (eliminating certain parts of a mono soundtrack for example) but it still does a good job

tranzor
06-09-2012, 08:59 PM
Man I have to save up funds for this pronto-- was able to remove the dog barking from this clip (or at least 99.999% of it):


http://youtu.be/5f4nP80oCA0

TomH1138
06-09-2012, 11:22 PM
Cool! What's the video look like for that clip?

Rogue-theX
06-10-2012, 12:42 AM
Does anyone know if it is a 30 day type of trial, or can you keep on using it but just not be able to save?

TV's Frink
06-10-2012, 12:46 AM
I'll tell you in 31 days. :p

tranzor
06-10-2012, 03:57 AM
Cool! What's the video look like for that clip?

There is no video, it was an audio only clip. I added the wording on the fly with womble. However I made this to give you a rough idea. The program gives you 3 options when you want to eliminate unwanted audio. Usually replace works fine, but I found in this clips case the "pattern" option worked better. Lets you do a compare before processing


http://youtu.be/lQesL7yPRfY




Does anyone know if it is a 30 day type of trial, or can you keep on using it but just not be able to save?

It makes no mention after installing or on the website that the trial is limited for a certain amount of time. However, it does tell you saving is disabled in trial mode

juice4z0
06-10-2012, 10:21 PM
I also started playing with it and it is a powerful program. However finding the voice inside the track to isolate it from the music is still a bitch. But I did remove music from a missile launch to leave only the missile sounds.

Hopefully i can figure a good way to go about isolating voices

tranzor
06-10-2012, 10:32 PM
I also started playing with it and it is a powerful program. However finding the voice inside the track to isolate it from the music is still a bitch. But I did remove music from a missile launch to leave only the missile sounds.

Hopefully i can figure a good way to go about isolating voices

you can always try the opposite- try removing everything else but the voices. If you have a selection of unwanted material though not present in the program, hit the delete key on your keyboard and it "greys out" whatever the selection. Then choose the spectre repair method. In that instance you could eventually (hopefully) remove everything else and be left with the voices

TV's Frink
06-10-2012, 10:34 PM
Oh carp, this kind of takes away my excuse for having unrelated snippets of music in the pieces of dialogue I cobble together.

AOTR - Coming in 2018!!!

tranzor
06-10-2012, 10:40 PM
Oh carp, this kind of takes away my excuse for having unrelated snippets of music in the pieces of dialogue I cobble together.

AOTR - Coming in 2018!!!

ahh don't feel so bad, if it was not for Booshman mentioning this program in his post I would have no idea such a thing even existed

juice4z0
06-10-2012, 10:57 PM
you can always try the opposite- try removing everything else but the voices. If you have a selection of unwanted material though not present in the program, hit the delete key on your keyboard and it "greys out" whatever the selection. Then choose the spectre repair method. In that instance you could eventually (hopefully) remove everything else and be left with the voices

I half follow what your saying, so if i understand it correctly i select part of the track that has music delete it then do spectre repair?

tranzor
06-10-2012, 11:18 PM
I half follow what your saying, so if i understand it correctly i select part of the track that has music delete it then do spectre repair?

Yes exactly or instead of deleting you can also just choose spectral repair. Using either option (with or without using the delete) will give slightly different results. Sometimes actually deleting the selection and then having the program use the spectral repair (pattern option) would take the sound around what you deleted and attempt to recreate it. Other times having the selection set (without deleting anything) and then just hitting spectral repair would give better results. Either option is worth looking into.

I mentioned the delete because if you did find something you truly do not want, the program can actually delete it but that option (from what I see) is not listed in any of the choices within the program itself. I just hit the key on my keyboard and it worked

TomH1138
06-11-2012, 07:57 AM
There is no video, it was an audio only clip. I added the wording on the fly with womble.

Well, I guess what I'm asking is: What's the clip that you edited intended for? Are you trying to put the background music without the dog barking into one of your projects? Or was that just a sound file that came with the demo?

tranzor
06-12-2012, 12:13 AM
Well, I guess what I'm asking is: What's the clip that you edited intended for? Are you trying to put the background music without the dog barking into one of your projects? Or was that just a sound file that came with the demo?

only way to get the actual soundtrack score to the 1970's Black Christmas is from a rear channel rip of the 5.1 audio on the first UK edition disc (fuck sony's). For whatever reason the US version used an alternate mix (not the original). The Carl Zitter score is amazing and even he no longer has the masters and was considering totally re-recording it a few years back (so a score soundtrack could be released). At any rate a good friend of mine did a very nice rip and it was virtually 99% sound effect free. The dog barking was something that could not be removed, till now. My play around time with that program was for the slew of things like this--

The youtube video I did upload where it shows the program (made for you) was another film with no full score release (bomb the system)

L8wrtr
06-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Hey Tranzor, which trial version are you futzing around with, RX2 or RX2 advanced?

tranzor
06-13-2012, 01:15 AM
Hey Tranzor, which trial version are you futzing around with, RX2 or RX2 advanced?

the Rx 2 2.02 advanced since that was the download page on Izotope I got it from

check this:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/download.asp

thatwitch
06-16-2012, 09:02 PM
Total noob question alert!

I have a question about when separating the channels. Are you still supposed to be able to hear what's going on in the background even though the channels were split? Even faintly? For example, I'm trying to grab the music from Nightmare 4 when Alice is preparing for her battle against Freddy. The background music is intertwined with Alice knocking items off of her dresser - which are heard being pushed and then hitting the floor, and other various sounds from her getting ready. When I split the channels I went through and listened to each one. Most of them seemed to be missing the dialogue, but those background noises still can be heard but even faintly. Is that normal or is it because this is an older film? I was hoping that once I split the channels the music wouldn't be muffled by the noises. I used DVD Audio Extractor for separating this audio and splitting the channels.

tranzor
06-16-2012, 09:12 PM
Total noob question alert!

I have a question about when separating the channels. Are you still supposed to be able to hear what's going on in the background even though the channels were split? Even faintly? For example, I'm trying to grab the music from Nightmare 4 when Alice is preparing for her battle against Freddy. The background music is intertwined with Alice knocking items off of her dresser - which are heard being pushed and then hitting the floor, and other various sounds from her getting ready. When I split the channels I went through and listened to each one. Most of them seemed to be missing the dialogue, but those background noises still can be heard but even faintly. Is that normal or is it because this is an older film? I was hoping that once I split the channels the music wouldn't be muffled by the noises. I used DVD Audio Extractor for separating this audio and splitting the channels.

Welcome to the world of 5.1 headaches. That is normal. You will have certain audio (whatever it may be) on all channels.

thatwitch
06-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Welcome to the world of 5.1 headaches. That is normal. You will have certain audio (whatever it may be) on all channels.

So there is no true all music piece without the effects found within the channels? That's a complete bummer. I thought for sure I'd finally have an uninterrupted piece of music.

TV's Frink
06-16-2012, 10:18 PM
It depends on the movie and in many cases which part of the movie. If you don't have the clean audio you need, you will have to enter the maddening world of total soundtrack replacement. :hurt:

Rogue-theX
06-16-2012, 10:23 PM
It depends on the movie and in many cases which part of the movie. If you don't have the clean audio you need, you will have to enter the at times maddening, at other times exhilarating world of total soundtrack replacement. :hurt:

Fixed. IMO. ;)

TV's Frink
06-16-2012, 10:31 PM
Well, I suppose it is rather exciting once it's done and it worked out, but sheesh what a lot of work!

tranzor
06-17-2012, 03:58 AM
So there is no true all music piece without the effects found within the channels? That's a complete bummer. I thought for sure I'd finally have an uninterrupted piece of music.


It depends on the movie and in many cases which part of the movie. If you don't have the clean audio you need, you will have to enter the maddening world of total soundtrack replacement. :hurt:

as mentioned by Frink, it really all depends on the studio and film and how the sound was mixed for their 5.1 track. Used to be a website up that had listings of 5.1 channel mixes (mostly dvd related since bluray did not exist yet) that had music only (or like 99% only) on certain channels

thatwitch
06-17-2012, 01:15 PM
as mentioned by Frink, it really all depends on the studio and film and how the sound was mixed for their 5.1 track. Used to be a website up that had listings of 5.1 channel mixes (mostly dvd related since bluray did not exist yet) that had music only (or like 99% only) on certain channels

That site sounds like it might be useful. Any idea what the link is? Even if the site is gone I may still be able to pull it up through the archive website.

Well, stream 5 seemed to have the best mix of the song. I can still hear a little bit of background noise going on but it's not as loud as it is while watching the movie. I appreciate everyone's help. I had no idea I could do this! I always wondered how everyone was able to do these fanedits without interfering sounds and such. :D

tranzor
06-17-2012, 07:52 PM
That site sounds like it might be useful. Any idea what the link is? Even if the site is gone I may still be able to pull it up through the archive website.

Well, stream 5 seemed to have the best mix of the song. I can still hear a little bit of background noise going on but it's not as loud as it is while watching the movie. I appreciate everyone's help. I had no idea I could do this! I always wondered how everyone was able to do these fanedits without interfering sounds and such. :D


That link was many years ago and an offshoot from another site (I might have it saved in an old faves list). No idea if I can find it but I did stumble across this one (from 2005) that might help you out a bit:
http://www.treuherz.de/ralf/scores/dvdlist.htm

and just found this recent post (from 2012) about it was a huge list and another link with more:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?15924-DVD-amp-BluRay-isolated-5-1-soundtracks

Rogue-theX
06-17-2012, 09:57 PM
Thanks for those links, Tranzor. :)

Neglify
06-18-2012, 03:31 AM
http://www.treuherz.de/ralf/scores/dvdlist.htm
...
L.A. Confidential


http://fanedit.org/wp/14408/



SPECIAL FEATURES
Isolated Music-Only Audio Track (DVD only)

Hymie
08-20-2012, 06:32 PM
Quick question about doing a 5.1 project in Vegas.

I've only ever done stereo projects before so attempting 5.1 is a new step for me and I just need a few pointers. Ideally, what should be in each track? Should effects be in the L and R tracks and ideally music in center or do I have it completely backwards. The project I'm working with has the same audio on all three tracks (as there is no music in the scene) and I was wondering where I should delete the audio and substitute my music. The movie by the way is Connery's Never Say Never Again and I intend to replace the audio as much as possible so I'm in for quite the chore.:-?

TV's Frink
08-20-2012, 07:38 PM
Is your source 5.1? I don't understand why you only have audio in three tracks.

Typically (if you are lucky) you'll find only dialogue in the center track, with music and effects spread amongst the front L-R and rear L-R.

Hymie
08-21-2012, 07:48 PM
Nah, its 5.1 but I just didn't mention the back two because I didn't think it was relevant as I knew the dialog had to be primarily in the front or center. Anyway, thanks for the help again Frink.

Just one more quick q, but is there a guide to edit 5.1 in Vegas that's a little more detailed. As I've said, its my first 5.1 project so I'm a little out of my depth. I don't really know the first thing to do if I want to put an mp3 for example or how I would go about spreading it across tracks or something.

Neglify
08-21-2012, 07:54 PM
Mainly depends on your editing program. I use Vegas Pro 10. You can add as many audio tracks as you want. When I'm adding music I want to play alongside the existing audio, I make a new audio track and assign it as a front channel. I can change whether I want it to be spread across all 3 front channels or just the left/right.

If I'm cutting out audio from one (or more channels) I would simply put the new audio in where I cut the other audio out.

I can make some screencaps if you want, but if you're not using Vegas it's just purty pictures that may or may not help you.

TV's Frink
08-21-2012, 09:28 PM
Just a heads up, one of the (few) limitations in Vegas Platinum is the number of audio tracks. I only get eight, which means only two extra tracks after the six channels. I use a seventh for an extra center channel when I want overlapping dialogue. The eighth hasn't been terribly useful for me (thought I used it for one extra rear left effect in TRM).

Basically...what Neg said. :-P

EDIT: Where I put replacement music (if that's what you are doing) depends on the scene. If I want music only, I just wipe out all the original audio tracks and put the music in every track except the LFE. Your other choices are center only, L-R only, or center-L-R only, but I like adding the rears too because I like a nice full soundstage, and it's really easy to do with music. However, if I'm trying to include music along with original audio (dialogue, fx, whathaveyou), I'm limited by my limited number of audio tracks. Usually in that case the music just goes in my extra center channel (track 7).

Neglify
08-21-2012, 09:31 PM
Just a heads up, one of the (few) limitations in Vegas Platinum is the number of audio tracks. I only get eight, which means only two extra tracks after the six channels. I use a seventh for an extra center channel when I want overlapping dialogue. The eighth hasn't been terribly useful for me (thought I used it for one extra rear left effect in TRM).


So basically...

If you're gonna pull a LastSurvivor and rebuild audio like a boss, go Pro.

If you're gonna go Neg and just add 1 silly song here and there go Lite.

TV's Frink
08-21-2012, 09:32 PM
Yeah, serious sound replacement without Pro is going to be very difficult.

Hymie
08-21-2012, 10:58 PM
Well, I'm using Sony Vegas 11 Platinum. I'm still getting used to it as I was working with 7 for the last 4 years but Amazon had it for $25 so I figured it was time for upgrade.

Yes I realize that its going to be a bitch and a half to do, but I did an edit of the movie with 2.0 and it sounded alright a few years ago so I hope now that I've learned a lot more I'll be able to do a better job. I only do edits for myself (i.e. I don't upload them) so I'm probably more forgiving than would normally be expected on this site but I totally understand how hard its going to be to do this edit properly.

If you can post some pics with pointers Neg that would be great. I'm not a complete novice to Vegas, but I'm definitely still adjusting to the newish tricks and layout.

Thanks again.

Neglify
08-22-2012, 01:52 AM
Simply put:

(NOTE: The audio I'm using for this example isn't 6 mono wavs. If you have 6 mono wavs it's the same, just more tracks.)

(NOTE 2: Some people have the audio/video tracks on top and preview on the top. The way you do it is the same regardless as far as I know.)

0) Make sure your audio properties are set to 5.1.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5654/new91.png

1) Put video and audio in timeline.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/441/new1u.png

2) If you want to add the new audio on top of existing audio, drag the new clip to the bottom of your timeline.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4505/new2o.png

This will create a new audio track.

3) Right click the 5.1 box to change the designation.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3066/new3i.png

If you want it in the Front L/R channel it will look like this.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1882/new4d.png

4) Now you can edit the new audio however you want. Add fade in, trim, etc.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4200/new6f.png

5) You will notice that it looks like there is no audio in any channel except the Center. You can verify this by muting individual tracks to check what plays out of each. The mute button is the NO symbol on the left.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5189/new10g.png

For this particular clip, there are some minor sound effects in the Front L/R channel. The audience members clapping is in the center channel.

So if you wanted to, you could replace the Front L/R channel audio with the new audio track. You will lose any sound effects that were there before.

Right click the audio track you want to edit, choose "Group" --> "Remove from". (Or you can left click the track and press U on your keyboard.) Then you can split the track (Dropdown menu "Edit" --> "Split" or S on the keyboard) where you want and trim it as needed.

Then you drag that song in the blank space how you want.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4287/new5c.png

Notice the crossfade created. You can tweak that as much as needed by extending or shortening the clips.

(Another NOTE: Like Frink mentioned before, you can also add the new music to the rear channels to make it surround. Do the same thing but for the Rear L/R channels. Make sure the new songs are lined up properly so you don't have the song out of sync across the tracks.)

6) You can add a volume envelope to an audio track by clicking in the dropdown menu "Insert" --> "Audio Envelopes" --> "Volume". This will make a purplish line pop up on the track.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2427/new7zq.png

You can double click on the line to create an anchor point. The volume is set to 0 but with anchor points you can play around with audio levels to your heart's desire.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5097/new8g.png

7) In addition to the volume envelope, you can adjust the volume for individual clips. Click the top of the clip and drag it down. A blue line will pop up and you can raise or lower as needed.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4346/new11d.png

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4849/new12.png

Now you know how to edit. Have fun.

Captain Khajiit
08-22-2012, 07:18 AM
:-) Great post, Neg! I know it's not what you're pointing out in Step 0, but -- to stop people copying everything exactly as they see it -- shouldn't the sample rate in the picture be 48,000 Hz? :)

Neglify
08-22-2012, 12:15 PM
:-) Great post, Neg! I know it's not what you're pointing out in Step 0, but -- to stop people copying everything exactly as they see it -- shouldn't the sample rate in the picture be 48,000 Hz? :)

Ah yes, forgot to change that for the sample. Thanks Captain.

njvc
08-22-2012, 06:02 PM
:shock: Most epic-est post eva?

Hymie
08-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Yeah, that really was a great basic how to edit audio in Vegas.

Luckily, once I understood that I wasn't stuck just using the six given tracks and that I could add tracks and just pick their designation to supplement what was already there I pretty much got what I was missing. That was a great informative post though and should definitely not get lost in the middle of a thread like this. Great job and thanks.

The Warlord
12-11-2012, 05:47 PM
Hi guys,

Does anyone know how to isolate dialogue only? I'm currently in the early stages of a Star Trek: Original edit in which I've been asked to isolate the dialogue only, with the aim to then add in new music. I've tried DVD Audio Extractor and Audacity but have had no such luck. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong?

Does anyone have any help on this, perhaps any other software?

I'm using Region 2 PAL DVDs and (I believe) the 5.1 surround sound.

Thanks,

Jon

ThrowgnCpr
12-11-2012, 05:53 PM
there is a thread, stickied even, discussing this. topics merged. read-up :)

TV's Frink
12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Added a link to Neg's guide in the first post.

ThrowgnCpr
12-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Added a link to Neg's guide in the first post.

inceptionized.

TV's Frink
03-02-2013, 03:06 PM
Today I stumbled across a GUI for BeSweet that works in Win7.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/BeLight

geminigod
03-02-2013, 08:01 PM
That looks interesting.

... Sometimes I feel so sorry for Mac users.

TV's Frink
03-02-2013, 08:05 PM
I would, except they choose to be so. :-P

twckfa
06-26-2013, 05:25 PM
Can version 12 do this?

TV's Frink
06-26-2013, 07:52 PM
Threads merged.

And to answer your question, no, Sony Vegas cannot do this (to my knowledge). This thread has some useful ideas on how to do it, however.

seciors
06-30-2013, 04:31 AM
I didn't see it mentioned anywhere on this thread yet, so i'll chime in with saying that MPEGStreamClip is a free application on the Mac (and I think for the PC as well) that will easily separate ac3 5.1 into 4 separate AIFF files (AIFF is preferred over WAV on the Mac). You end up with files for:
L/R in stereo
Center in mono
LFE in mono
Ls/Rs in stereo.
You just do need to do 4 separate "export to audio" commands to get the 4 different files. This is how I split ac3 files for use in my edits all the time.

if you really want to have the two stereo pairs split into their own separate files as well (usually this is not necessary except in certain situations, which you can handle in your editing app at the right time), you can import the stereo files into Audacity (also free and available on the Mac) and export each channel separately as its own AIFF mono file.

However, like I said, it's easier to work with the stereo pairs in your video editing application and split them inside the editing application when you feel the need to. All the major Mac video editing apps let you do this.

so there Frink, we mac users have options too! :-P

ThrowgnCpr
06-30-2013, 06:51 AM
that useful information for splitting surround streams on a Mac. Thanks seciors. However, it should be noted that this thread is specific to separating SFX music and dialog. While separating the channels is a first step, there usually is mixing and crossover, and will involve much more manual manipulation of each track.

seciors
06-30-2013, 09:34 AM
I understand Throw. But like you said, the first step is to get the channels separated.

So, to follow up with more info for Mac users, once you have the streams separated, the main work for doing manual manipulation for separating SFX and music from dialog will be in the video application itself, or in combination with an application like audacity (which has been mentioned previously and does have lots of filters available for working on individual tracks such as the center channel, if you are trying to get rid of unwanted sounds).

However, I want to make sure Mac users (and Frink ;-)) know that Final Cut Pro X (which is now the de-facto video editing application on the Mac) has a lot of audio functionality built-in.

First, there are a great many audio filters out-of-the-box, as well as quite sophisticated equalization controls where you can analyze frequency levels in realtime. The funcionality these provide are way beyond my own humble audio filtering capabilities. But they are there for those who know what they are doing, and I would think they are on par with many of the previously mentioned applications on the Windows side.

Furthermore, there is also no limit to the number of audio tracks you can add and mix together, on any of the 6 surround channels. There is also a surround sound designer tool, which lets you customize how any track gets mapped to the surround sound mix. Additionally, you can group audio into compound clips, and then use all the aformentioned tools on that compound clip. This lets you stack effects in the order you want. There's also no limit to the nesting of compound clips.

Finally, there is a pretty useful retiming tool, which you can use to change the length of an audio clip without changing the pitch. This sometimes works very well, and sometimes not so well.

As for specific techniques that apply cross-platform, I want to add that if you are removing something from a channel, you have to add something else in its place. Otherwise there will be a dropout that WILL be noticed by someone listening with a surround sound setup. This is most important if you are removing things from the center channel (the most common case). Usually I replace such removals with whatever is on the L/R channel, and just remap it to the center channel. Sometimes you can only use the L or R channel if the sound you are trying to replace bleeds through on one or the other.

I'm sorry if any of the above was mentioned earlier in the thread -- I did read the entire thing, but it was last night and my memory is not the best when I read things late at night!

emanswfan
06-30-2013, 09:04 PM
I know it would depend on a movie's DVD or Bluray specs, but if you had two corresponding language mixes, could you use it to seperate the dialogue from the music/SFX? For example I take an original (probably english) mix and invert it's phase with the corresponding spanish (or french or whatever) mix (same 5.1, 2.0, or 1.0 mix) and it should theoretically cancel everything out except those two types of dialogue. Than if you mixed the mixes together and used the result from the first inversion, you could cancel out the dialogue and be left with the music/SFX and then use that with the original (probably English) to cancel out the music/SFX leaving just the original dialogue. Would this possibly work with the proper workflow?

Just a random thought, sorry if it has been mentioned before.

seciors
07-01-2013, 08:16 AM
I know it would depend on a movie's DVD or Bluray specs, but if you had two corresponding language mixes, could you use it to seperate the dialogue from the music/SFX? For example I take an original (probably english) mix and invert it's phase with the corresponding spanish (or french or whatever) mix (same 5.1, 2.0, or 1.0 mix) and it should theoretically cancel everything out except those two types of dialogue. Than if you mixed the mixes together and used the result from the first inversion, you could cancel out the dialogue and be left with the music/SFX and then use that with the original (probably English) to cancel out the music/SFX leaving just the original dialogue. Would this possibly work with the proper workflow?

Just a random thought, sorry if it has been mentioned before.

If someone could explain how to do this, that would be pretty cool. I don't really understand why using two different languages would be necessary, but hey, a lot of this audio stuff is over my head! (I really do wish I understood audio better!)

ThrowgnCpr
07-01-2013, 09:16 AM
I don't think it would work with 2 languages. It is incredibly hard successfully with the same language track. Of course, I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but I suspect this wouldn't work in practice.

emanswfan
07-01-2013, 09:18 AM
If someone could explain how to do this, that would be pretty cool. I don't really understand why using two different languages would be necessary, but hey, a lot of this audio stuff is over my head! (I really do wish I understood audio better!)
The reason for this would be, assuming that you are using the same mixes (which you can verify if you are beforehand), the only difference between the two would be the dialogue. The music and SFX would be the same. So through the right workflow (possibly what I described above), you could obtain music and SFX alone and use it to seperate the dialogue from the music in the original track. For sure, there has to be some way for this to work.

emanswfan
07-01-2013, 09:20 AM
I don't think it would work with 2 languages. It is incredibly hard successfully with the same language track. Of course, I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but I suspect this wouldn't work in practice.
Well, I am going test it out soon enough and I'll post the results here, I'm certain I can get it to work to someway or another.

TMBTM
07-01-2013, 10:13 AM
I know it would depend on a movie's DVD or Bluray specs, but if you had two corresponding language mixes, could you use it to seperate the dialogue from the music/SFX? For example I take an original (probably english) mix and invert it's phase with the corresponding spanish (or french or whatever) mix (same 5.1, 2.0, or 1.0 mix) and it should theoretically cancel everything out except those two types of dialogue.

That kinda works... Well only when the mix are 100% the same, and that's 90% of the time never the case (from my experience).


Than if you mixed the mixes together and used the result from the first inversion, you could cancel out the dialogue and be left with the music/SFX

I think I tried that long ago, it did not work, because if you have your audio with the two languages mixed without sound/music as the result of an inverting phase method, then one of this language is inverted and not the other. Meaning that if you try to redo the "invert method" you'll still end with a voice in the mix.
But like Throw: I'd like to be proven wrong. Oh yeah.

TMBTM
08-03-2013, 09:49 AM
Okay, this is a new little theory of mine,

I did not try it yet, and since I'm not a math guy at all, I could very possibly went wrong with my reasoning.

So...

IF, and only IF center chanel (audio english) and (audio french) share the same EXACT mix (and it is rarely, if never, the case... so I guess all this theory means nothing in the end, lol) then:

Step 1: (audio english) + inverted (audio french) = English voices mixed with inverted french voices

Step 2: (audio english) + (English voices mixed with inverted french voices) = (audio french (with french voices being inverted)) mixed with (english voices at volume level X2)

Step 3: (audio french (with french voices being inverted)) mixed with (english at volume level X2) + (audio french) = (audio english (with voices at volume level X2)

Step 4: (audio english (with voices at volume level X2) + (inverted audio english) = .... English voices at original volume level.

Step 5: (audio english) + inverted (English voices at original volume level) = (audio english) minus english voices...


EDIT: All this reasoning is based on the supposition that an inverted audio removes half of the same original audio if its level is twice the same. And this is not a given.

RollWave
08-03-2013, 10:17 AM
step 3 would end with 2x Audio. Then step 4 just ends with the original audio english, not isolated voices.

.....start................step 1............... step 2.............. step 3............. step 4
(audio english) - (audio french) + (audio english) + (audio french) - (audio english) = (audio english)

step 3 just undoes step 1 and step 4 undoes step 2.

seciors
08-03-2013, 10:18 AM
If anyone gets this to work, PLEASE show how to do it using a video demonstration or provide detailed step-by-step instructions, preferably using tools that are cross platform like audacity. :)

TMBTM
08-03-2013, 10:21 AM
Yeah, step 3 gets double the music... must return to my reasoning lol

TV's Frink
08-03-2013, 10:24 AM
Double the music, twice the fall. :p

seciors
08-03-2013, 10:31 AM
Double the music, twice the fall. :p

Have to admit this made me laugh!

TMBTM
08-03-2013, 10:32 AM
Double the music, twice the fall. :p

At least at the end of step 2 I give you an audio with english voices at volume level X2! Maybe useful as a base to use removal filters on it. (okay there is also french voices in the mix too now... but the english are louder :p should please you!)

emanswfan
08-03-2013, 10:54 AM
I'm thinking this through too, in someway it's possible. If you can't perfectly invert it out, noise removal filters would work properly because there would be enough difference in volume.

reaper18783x
09-16-2013, 08:24 PM
hi i was wondering if anyone could tell me some cool program to do sound editing with as i am trying to separate music from the talking (ext), so i can put a whole new soundtrack in an edit i am doing i am using Sony Vegas 12
any help would be much appreciated

thanks
reaper18783x

TV's Frink
09-16-2013, 08:37 PM
Threads merged.

reaper18783x (http://www.fanedit.org/forums/member.php?u=25319), please read through this thread, it may answer your questions.

reaper18783x
09-16-2013, 09:10 PM
thank you tv's fink

TV's Frink
11-23-2013, 03:34 PM
Bump in order to re-share this from ot.com:



Alright, I've been looking for some free options for reducing the center channel of the AC3 file some more, and came across KnOckOut, a plugin for Audacity. Placing the center channel above the right channel, I then pulled the center channel to read as a left channel, and pulled the right channel to read as the right channel. This is so Knockout thinks that it is a simple stereo file. Playing with the settings allowed for a really impressive result. Leia's voice is hardly garbled at all, and except for a single errant note, I was hard pressed to hear any music. This is more than sufficient for incorporating into a trailer, methinks.


The only problem was that this didn't work. It only worked when I clicked the "preview" option, which played the first five seconds perfectly. Trying to apply the effect to the whole track did absolutely nothing except amplify the track. So I did what any sane person would do and recorded the five second previews with Windows Audio Recorder and stitched them together in Audacity. Here are the settings, if anyone else is interested in working from the AC3 audio:



Knockout settings for Leia Reconstituted Audio:


Vocals plus music on top, left panned. Right music channel on bottom, right panned.


Select both tracks, start Knockout. Extract Centre off, R input gain 13 dB, Output gain 8 dB, all other settings off.


preview section, record with windows audio recorder.


The moral of this story: It is quite possible to isolate the Leia hologram speech, with some effort.



Here's a quick example I worked up of how this can help:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klTHFSV6mkk

Also, I've added a link to the ot.com post in the first post of this thread for easy reference.

TMBTM
11-23-2013, 03:57 PM
Not bad if the new voice was played above a new music.
But I've done as good using the simple noise removal from audacity (sometime also mixed with the "Dynamics" filter of Premiere Pro. A filter that can remove all sound behind or above a certain level.)

I've read this post at ot.com a while ago, but I did not understand what the guy said, to be fair.
I'll double check it.

TV's Frink
11-23-2013, 05:43 PM
I've done as good

We're not all as talented and hard-working as you ;)

The results seem to vary based on what else is going on. Here's one where the removal seems to have worked a bit better (ignore the overall quality, I used a terrible recording setting by accident):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjdrR3oSh04

TMBTM
11-24-2013, 03:49 AM
Yeah, it's not that bad, indeed. Still some noise of course, but the music is gone.
Maybe it's a more automated way to remove music than using the noise removal filter.
Maybe a mix between those two tools could do wonders.

Neglify
11-24-2013, 05:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjdrR3oSh04

Can you redo this video without using a "terrible recording setting"?

I read some of that OT thread and I watched your videos. Sounds pretty tinny, would still be jarring to my Eyres. Agree with Mask that you'd need a second program/editor to balance it out.

But yeah seriously, I should check this program out. It could produce really nice results.

TV's Frink
11-24-2013, 11:11 AM
I haven't had time for much of anything editing-related lately so I don't think I would re-do that video. But here's another example - the Leia Hologram clip mentioned in the ot.com thread.


https://vimeo.com/78306721

Password: leia

98766654321
01-12-2014, 05:19 PM
For my Silent Running fanedit, I've found the Blu-Ray has an 'Isolated Music and effects track' and I was wondering if there was any way of utilizing this to knock out everything but the dialogue. I couldn't see any topics on this specifically!

Cheers!

ThrowgnCpr
01-12-2014, 05:25 PM
I couldn't see any topics on this specifically!

you must have missed the one stickied at the top ;)

your question now merged with that older discussion. dig around. There have been some really good results recently with one of the methods.

addiesin
01-12-2014, 05:31 PM
For my Silent Running fanedit, I've found the Blu-Ray has an 'Isolated Music and effects track' and I was wondering if there was any way of utilizing this to knock out everything but the dialogue. I couldn't see any topics on this specifically!

Cheers!
Import the two tracks in an audio editor, line them up just right so they start and end at the exact same times. Make sure the volumes are the same, and invert the music/sound effects track. You should be left with just voices. If it works, consider yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY. This is not a common advantage many faneditors have available. A music/sound effects track for the SW films for example would be considered gold here.

98766654321
01-12-2014, 07:36 PM
Honestly, I knew it was good news seeing that on the blu-ray box, because I attempted this before without it and even with the soundtrack, it was a massive, huge pain. And it barely did anything. I'll jump on that asap! Cheers!

smudger9
01-28-2014, 12:40 PM
Import the two tracks in an audio editor, line them up just right so they start and end at the exact same times. Make sure the volumes are the same, and invert the music/sound effects track. You should be left with just voices. If it works, consider yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY. This is not a common advantage many faneditors have available. A music/sound effects track for the SW films for example would be considered gold here.


Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV series blu rays have a music track and a voice/sound effects track. I couldn't believe my luck when I found out. Some of the music in the earlier episodes is awful, now I can just cut it out and replace it.

The Fiery Editor
05-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Hello I know your all probably sick of hearing this god damm question, but I need some help isolating vocals.

I ripped a DVD and I transcoded it with HandBrake. I set it too AAC for mixdown and AC3 for full, I then got an MP4 which I converted using Any Video Converter into a pure AC3 file. I then split it up into 6 mono WAV files using BeLight.

I had a problem, I got two tracks with just the music on, but no just vocals. The tracks were not were they should be, such as the vocals were not in the center.

Neglify
05-06-2014, 03:14 PM
Read these:

Sony Spectral Layers Pro: http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?11727-Sony-Spectral-Layers-Pro

Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music: http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?298-Separating-Sound-Effects-Dialogue-and-Music

ThrowgnCpr
05-06-2014, 03:17 PM
Hello I know your all probably sick of hearing this god damm question, but I need some help isolating vocals.

I ripped a DVD and I transcoded it with HandBrake. I set it too AAC for mixdown and AC3 for full, I then got an MP4 which I converted using Any Video Converter into a pure AC3 file. I then split it up into 6 mono WAV files using BeLight.

I had a problem, I got two tracks with just the music on, but no just vocals. The tracks were not were they should be, such as the vocals were not in the center.





not sick of hearing the question, but sick of having to merge new threads... As Neglify pointed out there are at least a couple threads discussing this, including one major one stickied.

As for "where the tracks should be" - Almost never are vocals isolated to the center. There really is no reason they would be. It can be a lot of work to isolate these elements. Good luck. SpectraLayers seems very promising, but that doesn't mean it is a one-click solution.

Many editors, myself included, have gone as far as rebuilding audio from scratch or getting voice actors to get completely isolated audio elements.