08-06-2012, 03:22 AM
About that boxoffice.com article... the idea that "trying to help" - which was explicitly stated as being the Batman's main objective in the first film - is somehow reminiscent of "Triumph of the Will" is absurd. It shows just how a lot of intellectuals (and wannabes) have no way of dealing with the ambiguous nature of vigilantism. Some people - interestingly, a lot of them on the political left - seem to have so much faith in government having a monopoly on violence/force that they end up preferring a police state to a vigilante who's merely "trying to help". As a left-leaning person, the intellectual debate around TDKR has been sad to watch. Rarely has the word "fascism" been bandied about with so little accuracy. (The other TDKR (The Dark Knight Returns) being labelled fascist is also back in vogue, it seems. Just as simplistic and inaccurate.)
08-06-2012, 11:25 PM
Hard to refer to Batman as a fascist, given that he seeks no political power.
08-07-2012, 05:48 AM
Exactly. Thank you for condensing my meandering post into one sentence (seriously!).
08-16-2012, 02:14 PM
08-16-2012, 02:23 PM
1 out of 1 members like this post.
08-16-2012, 02:39 PM
1 out of 1 members like this post.
There was a time in my short life when I would have taken this comparison as an insult. But g1or is nearly above reproach in my book!
Originally Posted by Neglify
Last edited by Gatos; 08-16-2012 at 02:45 PM.
08-17-2012, 06:04 PM
08-18-2012, 04:45 PM
3 out of 3 members like this post.
Wow. I think most people in this thread are way too harsh on this movie. You're entitled to it, but I'm a little taken aback.
I liked it. Not as much as TDK, but I liked it. Too many others just want to nitpick the movie to death, it seems. I certainly go off on glaring errors myself, such as, say, every single moment in the Star Wars prequels. But this is nothing like that. (Spoilers ahead - I'm guessing most people who care have seen the movie by this point.)
Re: Bruce Wayne's recovery - A lot of screen time was put into that. That's a big part of the reason why the movie is nearly three hours, to have a believable long recovery process. What, should there have been a montage set to "Eye of the Tiger"?
Re: Bruce putting on the costume after Selina knows who he is - She didn't know. Bruce only told her that he had a "friend." I don't think she knew that he was Batman until they were sitting at the cafe together at the very end.
Re: Alfred looking up - If Alfred had looked up at the end of the movie, seen nothing, and then smiled at nothing, that would have been the lamest, most incoherent ending ever.
Re: The title - It's perfect. Each of the movies is built to the final moment where the title takes on a new meaning. Bruce Wayne is just getting started in the first movie, but by the last shot of that film, Batman Begins. Batman remains Gotham's knight until he has to take the fall for Harvey Dent. By having his reputation ruined, he becomes The Dark Knight. Bruce Wayne must then rebuild his secret identity's reputation (i.e., the dark reputation of Batman must rise again in the eyes of the people). Then Bruce himself must climb out of a pit, both literal and metaphorical (as the other prisoners chant "Rise"). Finally, a new person prepares to take up the crime-fighting mantle. He steps onto a platform which goes up - and immediately we cut to the title: "The Dark Knight Rises" (i.e., though everyone saw him "die," Gotham's protector will rise again).
Of course, for a fan edit, use whatever title you want. But for this movie, the title wasn't just an accident. It was a perfectly planned and chosen title.
Anyway . . . just my 3 dollars. (It used to be "my two cents," but you know, inflation.)
An aspect of the film that no one has talked about yet (which surprises me) is that, by being a good movie at all, it finally broke the Third Superhero Movie Curse. Superman III, Batman Forever, X-Men 3 . . . all deeply disappointing. Just by being better than any of those, it's done something previously thought to be impossible!
I really liked the reveal of the Marion Cotillard (sp?) character. I should have seen it coming, but I totally didn't. Nolan got me twice with the same twist - he had done the same thing with Liam Neeson in the first movie! So clever.
I'm curious as to what's going on with the character who took over at the end. A lot of people are saying that he became Robin. But his real name is Robin, not Dick Grayson! Also, he repaired the Bat-signal. And he doesn't have access to Bruce Wayne's fortunes in order to make a bunch of new costumes for himself; meanwhile, there are still a bunch of Batman costumes in that cave. And the title fits better this way (as explained before); if it was meant to be Robin, the title wouldn't make sense.
I heard a podcaster saying something that I agree with, that the Dark Knight trilogy now follows the original Star Wars trilogy in its progression: The first movie was unlike anything we'd seen before; the second one managed to top it; the third one provides a satisfying conclusion to the story arcs presented, but there's no way it could top the first two. (He also uses LotR as an example of the same thing, but I thought Two Towers was the weakest of the trilogy. I would substitute in the Toy Story trilogy instead as a title.)
Okay, enough rambling from me!
08-18-2012, 05:54 PM
^I agree with you, there are a few inconsistencies, but the ending and overall sweet taste it left in my mouth helped me look over the flaws. For a almost 3 hour film it really felt like it needed to be longer in places.
Bruce's recovery, that I wa sokay with, it was more Bruce's inactivity, he pretty much ceased to be batman after the Dark Knight, they should've given it a year or maybe 6 months after the events, almost immediately after just seemed too soon for his injury.
I don't think it mattered what name John Blake had really, but Robin kinda made me groan, I'd have preferred Dick or Tim, but I guess even the most uninitated batman audience is familiar with Batman & Robin so Blake becomes 'Robin' in namesake and not Dick or Tim or Jason.
As for Marion Cotillard, it's kinda silly how she dies considering her cargo passenger endurses the same fall without a steatbelt, the interior that truck trailer must be made from the same padding as the Indy IV fridge
08-18-2012, 08:55 PM
I guess even the most uninitated batman audience is familiar with Batman & Robin so Blake becomes 'Robin' in namesake and not Dick or Tim or Jason.
Yeah, that's probably true. Even though it makes little sense, that must be what the filmmakers were going for.
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